Last week, Temu joined its competitors – Shopee, Aliexpress, and SHEIN – in Brazil, marking its presence in 70 countries. This expansion comes despite recent legislation imposing a 20% additional tax on cross-border e-commerce parcels below $50 in value (in addition to the 17% ICMS already charged).
What makes Brazil such a hot market for so many cross-border e-commerce companies? And what unique challenges do they face operating in Brazil?
Tune in as we delve into Temu’s recent entry into brazil, and where Temu might venture next:
Also available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Featured article:
Temu has launched in Brazil, despite all the challenges, TheLowDown
Southeast Asia & Latin America: Learning the digital emerging markets playbook, Momentum Works
E48: Jon Russell and Aulia Masna on TikTok-GoTo deal, The Impulso Podcast
[AI-generated transcript]
[00:00:00] Sabrina
Hello everyone and welcome to episode 80 of the Impulso Podcast by Momentum Works.
[00:00:04] Jianggan
So Sabrina is going away for a month of holiday in volcano Land
[00:00:10] Sabrina
Iceland .
[00:00:11] Jianggan
Okay, so she asked me to practice how to say I don’t know.
[00:00:14] Sabrina
Hello everyone.
[00:00:14] Jianggan
Hello everyone. So I’m going to give a little bit of try
[00:00:18] Jianggan
Portuguese
[00:00:25] Sabrina
gone you have to do this in English
[00:00:27] Jianggan
Yeah, which I said, okay, welcome to impossible podcast the best podcast in Asia. That’s in Portuguese. Why?
[00:00:34] Sabrina
Because on today’s episode we are going to be talking about Temu’s recent entry into Brazil So I think was it last week last last week
[00:00:43] Jianggan
last week
[00:00:44] Sabrina
last week 5th, June
[00:00:46] Jianggan
Yes, last week.
[00:00:47] Jianggan
Too much work. This few weeks.
[00:00:52] Sabrina
Fifth June, Temu recently entered Brazil, which also means that Temu is now operating in 70 countries. Global.
[00:01:00] Jianggan
So the preparations for Brazil launch has been going on for a while and we know a number of sellers who are working with them on that and a number of service providers.
[00:01:09] Jianggan
And initially people were saying that okay, launching in Brazil has been very challenging because there are lots of rules, there are lots of like, you know, tax issues, connecting the system, et cetera, et cetera. So many people sort of believed that that there would be delayed, delayed, delayed until I think mid of May and somebody was telling me that okay Temu is gonna launch on the 31st of May But still I was delayed for for a few days.
[00:01:33] Jianggan
I guess there are lots of technicalities. They need to figure out
[00:01:36] Sabrina
So and we do have a short article where Jianggan wrote down a couple of his thoughts on Temu’s launch in Brazil, but today we decided
[00:01:44] Jianggan
Why is it in English? Why is it in English? Oh, you chose the English, English option.
[00:01:50] Sabrina
Yeah, because it was from my, I have to read it.
[00:01:52] Sabrina
Ah, okay, okay, okay. But see, this here shows that it’s available in Brazil.
[00:01:58] Jianggan
You have all the discounts. And yeah, so you can buy, what is that? The charger?
[00:02:05] Sabrina
It’s a phone stand for your car.
[00:02:07] Jianggan
For seven reais. I
[00:02:08] Sabrina
need one actually.
[00:02:09] Jianggan
Oh, it’s quite cheap. Sold 29, 000 over two weeks. Is that a brazilian number or like global?
[00:02:15] Jianggan
No,
[00:02:15] Sabrina
I think this is global numbers.
[00:02:16] Jianggan
Yeah. Wow. Okay still
[00:02:19] Sabrina
Yeah a lot.
[00:02:20] Jianggan
So they must have negotiated very good discount with the seller
[00:02:24] Sabrina
So yes, like I mentioned jangan has written an article about this which will be linked in our show notes or the comments below And of course, it seems like everyone It’s going to Brazil.
[00:02:34] Jianggan
This is the comment from a one of the largest across border logistic providers in China, based out of Shenzhen and somewhere in eastern China as well. We visited them last November and he said, Oh, for 2024 look at Brazil because everybody’s going to Brazil. And I was telling him that I thought everybody was going to Mexico.
[00:02:55] Jianggan
He said, next year, Brazil. And everyone, I mean, because the other logistic provider, everyone goes to them to say that. Okay. I need to plan my logistic capabilities for next year. So everyone’s going to Brazil. And of course all the platforms are there. Who is there?
[00:03:09] Sabrina
The platforms have been there for a while, right?
[00:03:10] Sabrina
So Shopee is in Brazil. They entered in about 2020. And of course, I think they are also pretty focused on developing their own infrastructure and logistics there. So according to their latest earnings call, Shopee express delivers about 70 percent of Shopee’s orders in Brazil.
[00:03:25] Jianggan
Yeah. I was told that they have more than a million parcels a day in Brazil.
[00:03:30] Jianggan
Just Brazil. Yeah. So, which means that the logistic operations is actually fairly sizable now.
[00:03:35] Sabrina
Shein is also in Brazil. They also entered in. They entered in 2022. So two years after Shopee.
[00:03:41] Jianggan
Yeah. They have a physical store. Yes, in Brazil.
[00:03:45] Sabrina
Is it a pop up store or permanent store?
[00:03:47] Jianggan
I don’t know. , even if it’s permanent, it’s the purpose is to show people how it is, right? I mean, the major fulfillment is still done in online, right? So there’s another thing Shein
[00:03:57] Jianggan
did in Brazil, which we didn’t mention in the slides, is that they hired this former SoftBank executive Marcelo Claude, as their president for a long time.
[00:04:08] Jianggan
So that guy was with SoftBank for a long time, and then afterwards he took over WeWork to try to turn it around. Then for whatever reason, he didn’t, I think he fell out with Masayoshi san or some of Masayoshi san’s top lieutenants, then he left. SoftBank gave him a lot of money to run a Latin American fund, then he joined, I’m not sure if it was full time or part time, Shein. And he said he’s building a supply chain for Shein in Latin America. Which I think it’s a very interesting task, but it’s also a very challenging task. Because we know the Latin American fashion retailers source their goods from Asia. So there’s a reason why they don’t source from Brazil, which we’re not going to in this podcast.
[00:04:48] Jianggan
Yeah.
[00:04:49] Sabrina
Yes. And of course . Ali Express is also in Brazil. They entered much earlier.
[00:04:55] Jianggan
Isn’t that rabbit?
[00:04:56] Sabrina
As compared to its, yeah. I don’t know why the rabbit is there. I don’t think it’s the Ali Express mascot.
[00:05:01] Jianggan
I don’t know. So this is a video you can find on YouTube, like there’s like a rapid talking about how you get things.
[00:05:09] Jianggan
And I think the words means that the quality doesn’t necessarily mean expensive, right? Yeah.
[00:05:15] Sabrina
And AliExpress entered in about 2013. So much, much earlier than most of the other platforms. And of course, J&T also entered in 2022.
[00:05:25] Jianggan
I have a friend from J&T who has just been sent to Brazil and he just went like that.
[00:05:30] Jianggan
Oh, my boss asked me to go to Brazil. There I go. Actually, a bit about AliExpress, if you can go back a little bit. It was 2017 or 2018, a friend of mine from Brazil was visiting me in Asia and he has e commerce background and he was telling me that everybody in Brazil back then called AliExpress Ali Surprise.
[00:05:49] Sabrina
Because you wouldn’t know what you would get.
[00:05:51] Jianggan
I mean, no, you place the order, but you don’t know when you will get, I mean, you place the order in January, you might get it before Christmas or after Christmas.
[00:05:59] Sabrina
I felt like the quality wouldn’t be guaranteed. Yeah,
[00:06:01] Jianggan
but I’ve spoke with some of the earlier guys from Aliexpress in charge of Brazil market.
[00:06:06] Jianggan
They complain about the logistics because Aliexpress was a platform, right? And They said one cultural shock they had in Brazil when they first went there is that it’s the post office of Brazil. They used the post office to deliver and they said, during the holidays, no matter how much we pay them, they just refuse to work.
[00:06:25] Jianggan
This is very different from what we see in China. You just pay people enough, they will work.
[00:06:30] Sabrina
They want to enjoy the holidays. Yeah, cultural differences. So yes, J& T is also in.
[00:06:37] Jianggan
You know who that is, right?
[00:06:37] Sabrina
Messi.
[00:06:39] Jianggan
Yeah, Leo Messi. Oh, okay.
[00:06:42] Sabrina
He’s the ambassador for a lot of things.
[00:06:43] Sabrina
Yes. He’s also the ambassador for Cotti.
[00:06:46] Jianggan
Cotti, yes. He was also, I mean, I think the whole Argentinian team is the ambassador for Cotti.
[00:06:51] Sabrina
yeah.
[00:06:51] Jianggan
And Messi was also ambassador for WeChat when WeChat tried to go international in 2013, 2014. And if you compare that note, you will notice that Messi has aged quite a lot over the last 10 years, which is natural.
[00:07:05] Sabrina
And of course, this means that most of the platforms in Southeast Asia, or at least China in this region, have actually ventured into Brazil. Including Temu now, which just launched last week.
[00:07:16] Jianggan
The only exception is? TikTok shop. Okay.
[00:07:20] Sabrina
Do you know if TikTok shop has plans? I know they are very focused on US now.
[00:07:25] Jianggan
Yeah.
[00:07:25] Sabrina
Despite the
[00:07:26] Jianggan
I do have lots of friends in Brazil and there have been like two times that they were about to launch in Brazil. Then they said, okay, no, we want to focus on us and both instances is okay, we want to launch in Brazil. I have a line order like agencies like influencers and stuff.
[00:07:42] Jianggan
Then, okay, order from headquarters. We need to focus resources on the U. S. So I think now with what’s happening in the U. S. They are trying to make the cost of more relevant so that it probably becomes much harder to ban them next year.
[00:07:56] Sabrina
And I think it’s just a matter of time, right? Because look at their competitors like Temu, Shein, they went into the U. S. as well. And once they made enough there, then they started expanding into other countries. So once TikTok figures a way to
[00:08:09] Jianggan
That’s not always the case, right? Because Aliexpress never went to the U. S. that big. And I know Shopee. Focus on Europe. Shopee thought about going to the U. S. And without too much study, they said, Okay, Amazon’s too strong.
[00:08:21] Jianggan
Let’s not challenge them. But of course, I mean
[00:08:24] Sabrina
Temu did.
[00:08:24] Jianggan
Temu thinks differently. Do you know who that person is?
[00:08:27] Sabrina
No.
[00:08:28] Jianggan
So when people look at TikTok, they think about a TikTok CEO’s show, right?
[00:08:31] Sabrina
Mr Chou.
[00:08:32] Jianggan
Oh. Yes, this guy’s called Zhang Lidong co founder of TikTok. I’m so cofounder of Bytedance He’s the real decision maker of all the commercialization efforts of Bytedance.
[00:08:42] Jianggan
So he’s the one making the decisions
[00:08:43] Sabrina
So he’s the one deciding.
[00:08:45] Jianggan
Yes. He was one who did the Tokopedia deal which There’s a layoff going on, we can talk about that in a later episode.
[00:08:50] Sabrina
We also have a podcast on that, which will be linked in the show notes below, if you guys are curious.
[00:08:54] Jianggan
You remember all the podcasts, or you don’t have AI in your mind?
[00:08:56] Sabrina
I remember all the podcasts we filmed, that I filmed, at least. So, we mentioned, it seems like everyone is going to Brazil, but why Brazil? Why do you think, I don’t, I mean, the Latin America is a pretty popular market now as well, right? Similar to Southeast Asia. I think when people look at these two markets, they kind of, Compare them against each other.
[00:09:16] Sabrina
They have their similarities and their differences as well, right? But why Brazil specifically?
[00:09:21] Jianggan
We actually specifically published a report benchmarking Latin America and Southeast Asia back in 2022. So there are lots of similarities, right? I mean each region would have six major countries and Each region, I mean, I think the total population is kind of similar.
[00:09:38] Jianggan
Yeah Latin America’s, oh, there’s another similarity. They are all influenced by a super big neighbor on the north.
[00:09:47] Jianggan
Like US to the north of Latin America, China to the north of Southeast Asia. So you get lots of influence because of the the gravity of that large market or large supply but specifically about Brazil.
[00:09:57] Jianggan
So it’s the largest market in Latin America and and, and compared to the largest market in Southeast Asia, which is Indonesia, Brazil is smaller in population. The economy wise is more or less similar. And and of course we tracked most of the VC funding in Latin America, so it’s a big market and I do think maybe it’s not politically correct to say that historically, historically, I think Latin America modeled a lot.
[00:10:22] Jianggan
of their policies and after Europe, but in terms of economic development, they are not, I mean, aside from maybe Argentina and Chile at some point of time the whole of Latin America is not as developed as Europe. So there’s a bit of a sort of mismatch structurally. A friend of mine has recently been to Mexico and Brazil.
[00:10:42] Jianggan
So what she realizes is that I mean, she’s an e commerce expert, right, and operator. In terms of availability in these two markets, you have on the one hand the branded goods, like the premium and stuff, middle class and above, shopping malls, very nice. On the other hand, you have lots of very, very cheap goods from China.
[00:10:58] Jianggan
So people in the middle, For quality goods, there’s, there isn’t a much option for quality branded mass market goods. So there’s a lot of opportunity, but of course operating in those markets are not easy.
[00:11:11] Sabrina
It’s very challenging because I mean, there are similarities, but they’re also all quite different.
[00:11:16] Sabrina
And of course, specifically Brazil itself has its challenges, right?
[00:11:22] Jianggan
Yes.
[00:11:23] Sabrina
This is The cover of the Economist in November 2009, it says Brazil takes off and in September 2013, has Brazil blown in?
[00:11:34] Jianggan
- And I was actually in Sao Paulo during the election of 2014. It was very interesting. I think 2009 was when Dilma Rousseff became the president and 2014 she was reelected.
[00:11:48] Jianggan
And I had, I remember when I was in Sao Paulo, Quite a number of friends who flew back to Sao Paulo specifically to vote against Dilma Rousseff. And I can remember their face, how they got disappointed the day after. And of course that year there was also another, like, even bigger disappointment, which is they lost to Germany 1 7 in the World Cup.
[00:12:08] Sabrina
That cost all my Brazilian colleagues. Off work for two weeks.
[00:12:16] Sabrina
They had to all take leave.
[00:12:17] Jianggan
Yeah. But I mean, I think it’s a large pro nation with lots of resources, with a rich history and and with a very, very vibrant culture. And of course people have high expectations and it has always full industry, right?
[00:12:32] Jianggan
I think about did the Singapore Airlines just, or a school just bought like, you know, in the Brazilian planes for some of the regional routes. So basically Brazil has a full industry. And but of course the past decade has been disappointing. If you look at the GDP per capita.
[00:12:49] Sabrina
This is around 2011, right?
[00:12:52] Sabrina
The peak.
[00:12:52] Jianggan
So 2019, if you look at the economist it says it’s take off. It was taking off. It was taking off and it was actually, I mean, this is probably the financial crisis. And after the final crisis. And people had high expectations about Brazil’s recovery and all this middle class in Latin America.
[00:13:08] Jianggan
Up until like 2012, whatever, then there’s some policies from Dilma , Rousseff’s government, which caused confidence to dip. And and then it dip further and further. Then they elected someone far right, like Jair Bolsonaro. And that unfortunately coincided with COVID.
[00:13:27] Sabrina
But we see it’s kind of going up a little bit.
[00:13:31] Jianggan
Yeah, so Lula is back in power and of course he was in prison because of corruption scandal and people had high expectations about him because, I don’t know, I mean, I, I like Brazil, I like the people there, I just hope that they can, I mean, from an economic point of view, they can get their act together.
[00:13:49] Sabrina
We’ll see in
[00:13:51] Jianggan
Brazil. Yeah. We will see. Yeah.
[00:13:54] Sabrina
And of course, I mean, we are talking a lot about these cross border companies, right? And something that’s been happening is that Brazil recently passed a new legislation imposing a 20 percent additional tax on cross border e commerce parcels below 50 dollar in value.
[00:14:09] Sabrina
And this is on top of the 17 percent ICMS tax already
[00:14:12] Sabrina
charged, which is like a goods and service tax, essentially. So this was what you were mentioning just now when we were talking about Temu’s entry into. Brazil.
[00:14:23] Jianggan
So that essentially puts the tax effective tax to about 40% or a little bit more than 40%.
[00:14:30] Jianggan
And of course, I mean, team probably has done the calculation that okay, with this tax, it’ s still worthwhile for their time. Maybe they have they have also calculated that this market is big enough. And you know, when Shoppy went to Brazil like two years ago, the local marketplaces.
[00:14:47] Jianggan
What’s the one? Mercado Libre Etc. They were charging a seller a 16 percent commission. 16%. So everyone would calculate that, okay, I mean, this is a market which is very good, and some people have been making a lot of profit. And more efficient players should be able to, to disrupt. But of course, there are political forces behind it, right?
[00:15:06] Jianggan
So, many people have been lobbying about against the cross border players. So, on the top is this gentleman called Jorge Cunha. And he’s a senator. He’s been proposing the tax bills. And there have been some changes, but it, it was passed. And now it’s on the desk of the president, Da Silva, Lula Da Silva.
[00:15:24] Jianggan
So if he signs it, it becomes low and people need to comply. And that means another, like a set of system integration so that you can report tax without having your goose stuck at the customs.
[00:15:35] Sabrina
Yes, because I mean, it’s not just a problem that’s Brazil specific, right? We see a lot of other countries are also trying to clamp down on all these cross border commerce.
[00:15:44] Jianggan
I spoke with a lots of cross border logistic players and sellers in and they find most complicated Brazil. And South Africa. So both have introduced new taxes and both often have like goods rejected or stuck at customs.
[00:16:00] Sabrina
Which brings us very nicely to our next point. Is that also
[00:16:03] Jianggan
means that many of them have not been to Egypt.
[00:16:05] Jianggan
I mean, I’ve dealt with Egyptian customs. That’s another animal.
[00:16:08] Sabrina
Maybe they haven’t, they haven’t seen it enough yet, which brings us to our next point of Timu’s recent challenges in US customs as well. So, like we mentioned, not just Brazil, right, even the U. S. is also trying to tighten down on its cross border commerce.
[00:16:22] Jianggan
There was this thing that happened end of May when we were in Hangzhou and which scared a lot of people, right? I mean, plenty loads of Temu goods were stuck at customs because, I think the U. S. Customs and Border Protection Agency suddenly stopped clearance of, that’s bubble tea, okay, suddenly stopped Clearance of about 15 custom clearance agents.
[00:16:45] Jianggan
And one of the bigger ones, Seiko, actually issued a notice to, to its customers, saying that, okay this is unexpected, and we have been very compliant, we want to do something about it. And I think Temu also responded very fast. They issued A notice to their sort of suppliers within a few hours saying that Look, this is not we have investigated.
[00:17:04] Jianggan
This is because of some compliance issues of voluntary. Submission of the clearance agents. I think somebody said like ketamine or whatever was found in some of the parcels Not Temu’s parcels and that resulted in extra strict Sort of clear checks and stuff and lots of goods was stuck but I think the team so that night we got the news like four or five hours before the market opened and when the market opened and Pinduoduo’s share price was going up like half an hour later, like no stifed.
[00:17:34] Jianggan
More people learned about the news, but I think afterwards they managed to get the news. Slowly clear some of the goods and it seems that it’s just a small glitch to them But it highlights some of the risks that they’re facing in the cross border business
[00:17:46] Sabrina
Which could be why in US they are kind of so currently Temu’s been using a full consignment model, right?
[00:17:52] Sabrina
And then they’ve recently announced was it earlier this year last year much earlier this year That they are trying to shift to it. They are trying out a half consignment model in the US
[00:18:03] Jianggan
Yeah, so people will be sending sellers who have the goods already in the U. S. will be sending directly from U. S.
[00:18:08] Jianggan
warehouses. And I think from two weeks ago they have massively reduced the ad spend on full consignment or food management. And they have focused a lot of attention on people who already, already have the goods in, in U. S. I think in a way it’s also trying to convince the sellers in China to have their goods already available in the U S because that’s a risk.
[00:18:28] Sabrina
Inventory risk.
[00:18:29] Jianggan
Yeah. To take more inventory risk.
[00:18:31] Sabrina
So I think it’s interesting because we’ve been to China a couple of times this year for a couple of immersions, right? And we’ve had sharing by people who do cross border. And it’s very interesting because what they’ve shared is that obviously it’s very different from what they know in China, depending on the U S wherever they’re going, even the Middle East.
[00:18:48] Sabrina
Yeah. It’s just, all the fulfillment and all, it’s very different. So then, it’s like learning to operate a whole new logistic system.
[00:18:57] Jianggan
That’s why every time I speak to a successful cross border player in Shenzhen about, Hey, what do you think about Southeast Asia? The answer is usually I don’t have time for that.
[00:19:08] Sabrina
I can’t think about it.
[00:19:09] Jianggan
I don’t have time for that.
[00:19:11] Sabrina
Temu doesn’t really think of Southeast Asia either. So Temu is only in Malaysia and Philippines in Southeast Asia, which they entered last year. And they are not focusing much on it, right? But of course,
[00:19:21] Jianggan
they have not spent much on it.
[00:19:22] Sabrina
There are also rumors of Temu entering Indonesia.
[00:19:26] Sabrina
So this is from e commerce. I think we’ve mentioned them a couple of times in previous platforms. They are an Instagram page that has a lot of The latest tech gossip. Yeah on tech e commerce in southeast asia, right and they posted this in may pretty recently,
[00:19:42] Jianggan
so Temu rumored to enter indonesia in In 2024.
[00:19:46] Jianggan
So I also heard from multiple sources that Temu have been speaking to service providers in indonesia about I mean payment logistics and stuff I don’t know exactly how they’re going to, I mean, if the plan is going to go into Indonesia, I don’t know exactly how they’re going to do that because cross border will not work.
[00:20:02] Jianggan
I mean, the whole Indonesian, I mean, political setup is so much against cross border, but I mean, essentially the goods still came from China. So it’s just in a way benefiting the sort of distributors, sellers, whatever in Indonesia. So in a case that cross border is not working. How exactly are they I mean if they were to start I mean how exactly are they going to start it?
[00:20:23] Jianggan
And how exactly that would be a focus for them? I don’t know. I think they’re probably in a process of assessment as well They probably don’t have a concrete plan yet. But for that kind of company, they’re very data driven even they have a plan that can change
[00:20:36] Sabrina
Yes, and also I mean they’re testing out a new model now after How many years so maybe it’s something they want to implement but then again we talk about You Not just Timur but Pinduoduo a lot, right?
[00:20:46] Sabrina
As an organization, they are very, very efficient. You look at their GMV compared to the their headcount and like you said, they make very data driven decisions, so when they decide to enter Indonesia Do you think they’ll focus a lot on it, though? Or do you think it’ll just be like Malaysia and Philippines, kind of a touching goal we launched in this country?
[00:21:06] Jianggan
I think lots of people are trying to find a definite answer, whether they will do this, whether they will not do that. But I do think that a lot of decisions they make are dynamic. So they definitely want to make themselves, make the Temu a success globally. But how is that going to make up in different markets, and especially in some of the bigger markets, what will be their strategy?
[00:21:24] Jianggan
I think that’s dynamic. But one thing for sure, they mentioned about in their latest earnings call is that they’re going to focus a lot on compliance, which means, I mean, they started, I mean, people have lots of complaints about them, but they want to be a, I wouldn’t say like a good player, but a compliant player.
[00:21:40] Sabrina
So they don’t get banned.
[00:21:43] Jianggan
Yeah. At the same time, let’s see we should do Immersion to Brazil.
[00:21:47] Sabrina
Yes, I want to go to Brazil.
[00:21:49] Jianggan
You haven’t been?
[00:21:50] Sabrina
No.
[00:21:51] Jianggan
Oh, okay.
[00:21:52] Sabrina
It’s too far of like, yes, but I think it’s interesting to look at Brazil as well. So I think that brings us to the end of today’s episode of the impulso podcast if you guys are interested in more insights on Temu We do have a report called who is Temu which will be linked in the show notes or comments below And of course on our blog the lowdown.
[00:22:08] Sabrina
We also have a series of articles Temu It’s one of the companies that we analyze quite closely And I think we should do a deep dive into Pinduoduo and Temu one day.
[00:22:17] Jianggan
We’ll do that once we have time. Yes. Now it’s just so many projects. And Sabrina thinks that doing a podcast is a break for her from work.
[00:22:24] Sabrina
Yes, it’s a good break. So, thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of the Imposal Podcast. We hope that you guys enjoyed today’s episode. If you did, do like our podcast and subscribe to us on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform, to stay up to date on the latest happenings and trends in tech, new retail, and the broader digital economy.
[00:22:43] Sabrina
Adios. Thank you. Bye bye.