E72 – The Impulso Podcast – Our learnings from visiting top MCNs in China

In this latest episode, Jianggan takes over as the host, and interviews the team, Sabrina, Yorlin and Liz, about Momentum Works recent Live Commerce immersion, where we brought 20+ delegates from Southeast Asia to Shenzhen. 

During the 3 day immersion, participants engaged in over 10 visits, including exclusive tours of leading MCNs. Tune in as we reflect on the trip, sharing memorable experiences –  going behind-the-scenes at MCN studios, interactions with AI virtual hosts, and gaining insights into China’s live commerce ecosystem from our panel of expert speakers.

Also available on Apple Podcast.

Interested in going behind-the-scenes at MCN studios? Or want to delve deeper into China’s live commerce landscape?

Join the Momentum Work Live Commerce Immersion taking place from 28 to 30 May in Hangzhou, China. Register here! You’ll have the opportunity to engage in equally impactful visits, discussions, and networking sessions with expert practitioners and potential partners. 

Featured materials: 

Live Commerce Immersion [May], Momentum Works
Live Commerce Immersion [March – completed], Momentum Works
Five top learnings from MW Live Commerce Immersion to China, TheLowDown

[AI-generated transcript]

[00:00:00] Jianggan

Hello everyone. Welcome to episode 72 of the Impulso Podcast by Momentum Works. Today we are changing the dynamics a little bit.

Usually Sabrina is hosting and today I am interviewing Sabrina, Yorlin

 

[00:00:12] Yorlin

Hello. 

 

[00:00:15] Jianggan

And Liz. 

 

[00:00:16] Liz

Hi. 

 

[00:00:17] Jianggan

So as many of you might know that we organized a live commerce inmersion with about 20 e commerce leaders in Southeast Asia to China in March. So all the people here have been on that trip.

Of course, some of us are very familiar with what’s going on in China. Some of them are going there for the first time. So today we’re going to discuss a little bit about what we have seen, what we have learned and some of the interesting anecdotes along the way. So I’m going to start by asking the first question.

What’s most memorable moment or what’s most impressive thing that you have seen while you were in China?

 

[00:01:00] Yorlin

Okay. Okay. Let me start. This is our second trip for a live commerce type of immersion. And this time around in March, right? We brought along 20 e commerce leaders. What was most impressive is really the information understanding. between China versus Southeast Asia.

So when me and Liz, Liz is the product manager for this immersion, right? And we were working out on this agenda. What we what I found very interesting is that I don’t know many of those very, very popular We call them the MCN, right, or the live host. Whereas actually Liz had to, well, I think Liz met many instances was like, was shocked that I didn’t know that these are such popular people, companies, and then she had to give me and Sabrina a lowdown and an explanation about them.

 

[00:01:48] Jianggan

So that was the most impressive thing? 

 That was more like the first like chasm of understanding trying to figure out what’s going on, right? And what we don’t know, what we don’t know, right? Then, I think when we went to Shenzhen, what was quite impressive was some of the MCN studios, it’s huge.

 

[00:02:02] Yorlin

And I think the way they work is the professionalism is just Out of what I’ve seen before. And even a lot of the participants that we brought them over and they were like seasoned practitioners. They were also impressed and there were quite a lot of learnings that they could bring back.

Like, for example, SOP how do you recruit? How do you train a host? And then I think how you actually run the operations. We went to one MCN, they had about 80 studios. Right. And that’s in my, okay, in my experience is about, let’s say three or four, like schools , in Malaysia or Singapore, 

 

[00:02:35] Liz

I think for me, It’s the MCN part, like many friends from MCN shared something with us, and also they opened their door for us to do a visit, like we can go to the studio and see how they do the live streaming, right?

This one I really feel it is very amazing. And you can see that even they have done so well in China, but they do have plans to, like, go overseas. And I think it is also very, like, it has been special for me. To like help them to build trust or with our participants which we can maybe discuss more about the details of the live streaming.

Yeah. 

 

[00:03:14] Sabrina

I have the same answer actually. Mine is the MCN also. But I think cuz one, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an MCN of like this scale in Singapore. I don’t even think we have MCNs in Singapore, but the MCN that we went to it was huge and not just that but they also let us go into a few of the studios and see what they were filming, right?

So I think the most interesting one was this girl who was just filming outside. She looked like she was filming some kind of drama. 

 

[00:03:41] Jianggan

She was not in a studio. 

 

[00:03:42] Sabrina

Yes, she was not out on the streets, but she was still in the MCN building, but not in a specific studio. So they were like moving around and filming.

And what was the most interesting to me was that, like we mentioned, we brought 20 plus participants, right? All of us were literally at the back, just staring at her and like laughing and being very amused, but she’s so unbothered by everybody. She just continues her live stream. Continues like her script.

I don’t know what script she’s reading. It seems to be all in her head But yeah I think that was the most impressive to me like to see the scale and the skill of this live host 

 

[00:04:16] Yorlin

To add on, this lady was dressed like she was going to a banquet and I I think she saw 20 people coming by just before she started Her live stream, right?

I saw her saying wow So many people.

 

[00:04:26] Jianggan

She said that?

 

[00:04:28] Yorlin

Yeah , but then when she started the live streaming, right. And it’s more like what I heard, I understand from Liz is more like just to get the crowd interested. Now it’s not just live streaming. She is now doing a drama. Like she couldn’t get into her office or something.

Right. And then she was scolding somebody on the phone. Right. 

 

[00:04:43] Liz

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, she wanted to like catch the traffic. So she wants to make people feel like she’s in a really big trouble. So that’s maybe why she said, Oh, so many people, so many people is looking at me, but I cannot open the door. 

 

[00:04:57] Yorlin

Oh, she said that?

Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. She was talking in Cantonese. 

 

[00:05:04] Jianggan

But that was part of the script, right? I mean, how do you know that she was genuinely like surprised that so many people were there? Because I mean, the other studio we went into there was actually a live stream going on with like a bunch of people basically acting a story. Right. Like a family and yeah, we’re just working around. They were just focused on what they were doing. And Sabrina was saying that, wow. I mean, such professionalism. 

 

[00:05:25] Sabrina

Yeah. I think they’re more professional than actors because they do it in front of a live audience and they don’t care. They don’t even, I don’t know if they have a script, but they can do everything so well.

 

[00:05:36] Jianggan

What is also interesting is that so one of our friends , who was at the, event he’s from Beijing. He later posted this sort of a short video of that live stream onto his WeChat moments. And he had like seven people asking, Hey, you are in Guangzhou and you are visiting this uncle Jin’s studio.

 So apparently that the studio we visited was kind of local celebrity that was built on live. 

 

[00:05:58] Sabrina

I think they said they had like a whole drama series, right? Like a whole list of characters from this family and that stuff. But it’s interesting because it’s not how you see live stream in Southeast Asia, right?

 

[00:06:09] Jianggan

It’s people like giving non-stop selling. 

 

[00:06:11] Sabrina

Right. There isn’t much of a storyline or acting, people are just showing you the product showcasing the products So I think it’s very different and that was what was interesting to me as well 

 

[00:06:22] Liz

Yeah, and I still remember that the last time we visited the MCN they’re holding a wedding 

 

[00:06:27] Yorlin

Yes, yes Yeah, that was a live streaming and what I like was more instead aside from just like the show what I appreciate it more from a business sense is that when you walk through the studios there’s 80 of them, by the way, I’d say every studio, there’s actually a card with the organized the team’s name and who’s in the team and a bit of photos about and a group photo, meaning that I think there’s actually quite a complicated organizational structure to manage these live hosts and and the surrounding teams.

Right. And of course the sharing session with the co founder, and this was actually done at what 8 PM at night. Right. Where we saw like they had about 10 people there hosting us, which is quite rare for like a Chinese, a company to be working, to be still hosting our external guests at 8 PM.

And I think the dialogue that happened after we saw the sharing was quite eye opening where questions that were asked were like, how do you find the top hosts? How do you you know, build them up? And I think the answers were humbled, they’re quite humble for a very, very big company, but also very like humble, but sort of straightforward saying that we are a good company. People will come to us. We don’t need to go out and look for a good host. 

 

[00:07:33] Jianggan

That doesn’t sound very humble to me. There are quite a few, like, you know, quite practical sharings, right? I mean, about , what kind of sort of operational structure you create so that you attract and retain the talented hosts and build a team around there. So one thing I remember the most from, from that particular visit was top hosts sort of matter of luck. But if you have SOP and everything in place to make sure that the creative people Have the ability to create, then you will create above average organization.

Right. , I mean, Many people ask, Hey, you have 80 studios and 80 teams and half of them actually active live everyday. So how do you make sure that I mean, you can manage them properly. So I would say that didn’t come from a, you know, grand strategy from the beginning. It’s about, okay, here’s opportunity.

We need to seize it. And how do we do it? And making lots of decisions along the way. And assist opportunities as they come by and to become what they are today. 

 

[00:08:35] Sabrina

I think another interesting thing I saw as well was the AI virtual host. So we visited two companies that focus on the AI virtual host, right?

Yeah, that one was interesting to me as well, because it’s so real. It’s quite real. It’s decently real. It’s very scary. 

 

[00:08:51] Liz

So you can even use like different accents. Yeah. Different accents. 

 

[00:08:56] Sabrina

The different accents sound was very funny.

 

[00:08:58] Jianggan

I think Sabrina has existential crisis afterwards. Whenever she sees the video, she doesn’t know whether it’s real or not.

 

[00:09:04] Sabrina

Yeah, it’s quite hard to tell, especially if you’re not paying, like, very close attention to the lips or, like, the way it moves. You can’t really tell if they’re AI or an actual person. 

 

[00:09:16] Liz

Yeah, and it’s very interesting that you find this is so common. Like, every MCN we visited, They are like everyone is using the A. I. The virtual host right, to reduce the cost. 

 

[00:09:31] Yorlin

And I think for me, it was more like before when we were visiting these AI host companies, right. Some of the questions from the participants were like will they actually even work in Southeast Asia? Because I think brands would be very concerned and sometimes it’s like, how about rights and and IP, right.

But it’s surprising that actually a lot of these MCNs and AI host companies, right, are already quite deep into the legal and policy settings. And they have actually been working very closely with brands to make sure that, let’s say for example, a brand, right, can actually buy and own the IP of one particular avatar.

 And this goes down to what this avatar is wearing and how he or she speaks and how entire room will look like. So it’s not just like having one AI person that, and then selling the way the anyhow, it, you know, He or she likes but there’s actually quite a very strict process behind it.

 

[00:10:22] Jianggan

I actually don’t understand why legal and whatever become concerns to be very honest because I mean If there’s a demand people figure out a way and and lawyers are hard to help you deal with it so obviously, what we saw so there is that I mean, if you look at MCN, they talk about competition, right?

They talk about, okay, in this category, I have 50 competitors, how do I outsmart them? And it’s a lot about, okay, looking at the data. It’s a lot about adopting the technologies that everyone would have to, because, I mean, if you don’t You will be missing out. You will not be as operationally efficient compared to the others.

 

[00:10:56] Yorlin

But then on that note, right. And I think one, one thing is that I think one question that one of the participants, tricky participants threw at the AI host companies were what are AI good at? What are the AI avatars good at selling and what are they not good at selling? Right. Hmm. 

 

[00:11:10] Liz

I think maybe for some like fashion or some customized products, It’s not that good at selling this.

 

[00:11:19] Sabrina

I think also one of the AI companies we visited, they shared some numbers, right? That just using AI to do live selling doesn’t bring the same GMV as if you were to use a human host. 

 

[00:11:30] Jianggan

But it saves lots of money, right? I mean, it’s like 10 percent of the money for like 40, 50 percent of the GMV, which for some of them is still pretty much worth it.

I mean, especially in hours where the top hosts are you don’t have that much top traffic for the top host to actually show their face.

 

[00:11:46] Yorlin

So I think one way that we saw, right. Is the number one AI summary or AI avatars are good at selling standardized products, mainly cosmetics many things that are like FMCG goods, right?

Not so good in, let’s say clothing because it’s actually quite unique and you need somebody to wear it and fit it and show it right. And I think second thing is that now, I think the trend now is not just Human or AI, but human plus AI, right? And I think what people are doing is that they would, let’s say for example, somebody famous would actually IP out their face and their voice, right?

And then after that these AI studios can then use this person’s face , and voice and then plus another real human. And then they can actually do four or five hours of this thing. So Sabrina, some idea for you and Jianggan. Can you just IP a Jianggan’s face and voice? 

 

[00:12:33] Sabrina

Let me hear him say whatever I want him to say.

 

[00:12:35] Yorlin

Say whatever you want him to say. 

 

[00:12:39] Liz

Yeah, and I do remember that they mentioned that they didn’t want the, actually the virtual host to be more successful than real human, right? But they think they can be like very near. to the revenue that human can create. And you know, the virtual hosts, they don’t need to have a break, right?

They can just work 24 hours, seven days. 

 

[00:13:03] Jianggan

There was one question. I remember people asking that when were the digital humans or the AIs are able to make, prompt decisions on certain things. And the answer from, because, I mean, AI companies we visited were actually funded by the top engineers who used to work at Taobao doing the live part.

 And the answer is that it’s probably not very far away, one or two years. But at the end of the day there’s always something that is human that can’t be exactly replaced, especially top human hosts. So this is something, I mean, real time engagement, et cetera, et cetera.

 So still, I mean, technology would have some catch up that they need to do. And also one thing we realized you which is pretty interesting is that, I mean, the different combination of AI and human that has been used in practice, right? So for instance, you have two hosts, one is AI, one is human.

 And they can be coming from like a very different locations. I mean, of course, I mean, it doesn’t matter which location that is. And second is you would have a real human actually speaking and the voice gets transcripted and then sort of voiced out by the AI. So that reduces the fatigue of the human.

So, because actually Doing the live show for extended period of time is actually pretty tiring. And I think we have seen some empirical numbers that people have because so many are doing AI, right? And sometimes when you use this combination of human plus AI, it can actually generate more GMV compared to just human.

 Which I think is fruitful thought for many of us who are actually looking at the live commerce ecosystem, thinking about, okay, what we should do that and how should we maximize our ROI. And of course the cost element, the efficiency element, this both need to be taken into consideration.

 

[00:14:43] Yorlin

Then I think on the same note, right? I think we’re not talking about AI avatars. But behind the scene, there’s also AI scripting, AI product development and also data to to showcase like which influencer, human or AI otherwise, is selling the most. And I think that’s actually the second level of like a SaaS and data that companies in China are actually gunning for.

And the data that we are seeing can be quite valuable. Right. And no matter how good a company is, there’s always 10 or 20 competitors just behind lurking around. 

 

[00:15:16] Jianggan

Did you say 10 or 20? The numbers I heard was like 5000

 

[00:15:25] Yorlin

wow. I agree. 

 

[00:15:27] Sabrina

Underestimating the competitors. 

 

[00:15:30] Jianggan

So one question is that when there is so much competition, Naturally, you see the ones which emerged top. I mean, one MCN we visited that afternoon. It’s kind of interesting that the founder came from operational background and his wife, who co founded the company with him, used to be a live host.

So what do they do all the time? Figuring out the operational Sorry, figuring out how to game the algorithms, figure out how to improve the operational efficiency, and one particular thing, building SOPs. And we were told that they built, I mean, they showed us that they built like 20 plus SOPs for each of them.

And they said, at the end of the day, Today so the platforms are driven by algorithms and if you manage a large organization you need to have a way to make sure that, okay, everyone consistently perform above average, above your competitors. And also whenever they go and explore a new category, they want to get into and the amount of data they gather is actually staggering, right?

I mean, down to the level of if I want to like create a new lipstick, look at all the descriptions. And I mean, for us, it’s like, okay, we write a description for product that we believe in, or when you ask AI to write a description and they will dissect the description into the keywords and see what keywords should be, what keywords should not be, so that they can actually be slightly ahead of their competition. 

 

[00:16:55] Yorlin

For this particular MCN, right, that we I think they were one of the bigger ones.

They were one of the bigger MCNs, yeah? But aside from just creating MCN, they’re also going to other verticals. Like, for example, what kind of product are they also creating, they’re also creating their own health supplements, right? 

 

[00:17:11] Sabrina

Yeah. Their own brand. I think both the MCNs we visited have their own brands as well. 

 

[00:17:16] Liz

Yeah, they have their own brands and they maybe like buy some fulfillment companies and they also invest in like tech companies. Yeah. To expand their business. It’s very interesting. 

 

[00:17:30] Yorlin

I think that’s a very interesting trend. That, I think MCNs themselves, or even AI Avatar companies, right, are moving into other verticals.

 

[00:17:38] Jianggan

Yeah. Because live as a category, as a vertical, grew really, really fast. So in any sector that’s growing fast, and the ones which capture the growth, which actually move a little bit faster than the competitors, would capture a lot of this growth. Yeah. They become very big companies and so they humbly said that, Oh, well, we did like, like 10 billion yuan worth of sales and you couldn’t even like find their names on Google.

And of course Google is not available in China. So you have people who made a lot of money just being sort of operational focused, efficient and smart in positioning and strategy. So then of course, they still need to stay ahead of competition. Then they look at, okay, across the value chain, what else can I do to reduce the cost, to improve the efficiency, and to make sure that I stay ahead of my competition.

In a way, you think about it, it is not that different from what the top tech companies, right? I mean, Alibaba, initially, they figure out they need to do payment, then they started Alipay. They need to handle logistics. They need, they started Cainiao. So we see the same sort of mindset here, right?

I mean, when I become big, I need to defend my turf. What can I do? I need to keep growing. What can I do? 

 

[00:18:46] Yorlin

And on this point, right? And I think it’s that how do you defend your turf? And then we met, like, what, two MCMs? Each one of them have a very different strategy, right?

 so for this MCN that we met in 2015, The first MCM we made in Guangzhou. Their strategy is not to try to grow too big, but they want to work with partners that are good in what they do. They did a sharing session with us and they brought one brand. What is it called?

 

[00:19:09] Liz

Ding Ding Lan Ren Cai. 

 

[00:19:11] Yorlin

Yeah, it’s like a, the kind of sauerkraut fish dish. And then there’s also one partner who’s doing KOC as a service, right? Yeah, Mou Shi. 

 

[00:19:22] Jianggan

So the sharings from these two parties are interesting, right? One of them actually built a brand of a particular popular sort of fish dish, and pre packaged and sold through different channels.

And the co founder keeps saying that, okay, we really benefited from the way of live commerce because that allows them to actually build a brand properly. And if you look at the lab they do, right, it’s not only just about, you know, live selling, but it’s about opening up in the entire production process to people to build trust, right?

Because I said, we packaged food and people don’t know what is clean, what is, whether it has like unwanted materials, et cetera, et cetera. But that’s it. I mean, We open the whole thing live to your consumers. You gain the consumer’s trust. And now the company is talking about entering Southeast Asia because they said that, okay, offline we see lots of sauerkraut fish restaurants opening everywhere.

Yes. And there must be a market online as well. 

 

[00:20:14] Yorlin

Fun fact is that for Ding Ding Lan Ren Cai, the founder is an engineer. And I think his target market are moms and homemakers. So then initially, I think the conversation , with the crowd was more like how would you, an engineer know what a mom’s and housewives want, you know, and I think, I think that that actually set off this kind of chain of discussions about how to do business, whether or not, you know, how to make, 

 

[00:20:39] Sabrina

I think a lot of the other companies, not just Ding Ding Lan Ren Cai also talked about expanding to Southeast Asia, right? So previously we talked about like them expanding vertically. I think some of them are also expanding overseas now. And Southeast Asia is an area that most of them are looking to enter.

 

[00:20:55] Jianggan

It is driven sometimes by themselves, sometimes by their ecosystem, right? We have this one of the top MCNs actually coming down from Hangzhou to Shenzhen to give us a sharing. And the desire is very, very strong there, and they are one of the top MCNs in China. They work with a lot of brands, and I think I’ve shown you guys how their studios look like.

I mean, the scripting, the video. is top notch, right? They have already established offices in I think Indonesia, Thailand. And then realized that America, the United States of America, right? So they realized that actually it’s not because they want to work with partners per se, that they want to share whatever, but it’s because they realized that, okay, now the complexity of having to manage operations across different countries is different compared to scaling a business in China, right? Now they realize that, okay, so many brands that have been working with are expanding into Southeast Asian markets. And they are saying that, Hey, can you go and build operations there? Can you go and build operations in Vietnam?

And they realized that, okay, the huge complexity that they would have to incur by having presence in all these countries. I mean, imagine how to find the right people, how to manage, how to make decisions or all this like nitty gritties from each market. So naturally they said, okay. We have realized we can’t do everything ourselves.

We need partners. 

 

[00:22:12] Liz

And also, I think it is because MCN’s speciality is based on their host, like their KOLs. We see key opinion leaders on internet, right? But they do have that kind of influence in China. But out of China, they need to educate, like more host. They need to find a, like, Maybe new KOLs to cooperate.

So this is also a challenge for them. 

 

[00:22:38] Jianggan

So basically they need to adapt, because many of them have figured out SOPs, right? And of course, the level of development, the way to manage people, etc., and the way to incentivize people might be different across different cultures. So I think this is something that would take them a lot of time to figure out to learn which I think if they put enough attention, so they say that if I go to one market in Indonesia I spent like a year there, I can probably figure it out. But six markets at the same time it’s challenging. So they need partners. 

 

[00:23:07] Sabrina

Of guests who flew in from Hangzhou, we had multiple guests.

We had 12 guests who actually flew in from Hangzhou and Shanghai. Right. And a lot of us, a lot of them told us that we should actually visit Hangzhou for our next immersion. 

 

[00:23:20] Jianggan

Because they are there. And some of them said that, look We see the difference between the ecosystem in Hangzhou and Guangzhou Shenzhen, right?

Guangzhou Shenzhen is A lot more focused on making money. A lot more focused on cross borders. So lots of the supply chain that we see in Southeast Asia actually came from Guangzhou and Shenzhen. Or Hangzhou where, I mean, you know, that is the headquarters of Alibaba. So there’s a lot of, a lot of focus on technology, a lot of focus on brand building. And I think some of the top MCNs are there as well. So this is why we are 

 

[00:23:52] Sabrina

planning our next immersion there. So we’ll be doing another live commerce immersion. 28th to 30th May and this time around we’ll be going to Hangzhou. So it’ll be Similar, but different from our March immersion, right? Similar in terms of the content and the types of companies that we would meet.

 

[00:24:10] Yorlin

I think we are in the midst of curating the agenda. So just like what we did in March depending on who we speak to the, the participants, what they’re looking for, are they from brands, investors, or service provider point of view, we are going to be curating a trip , for the participants.

Right. So Liz is going to be, heavy lifting very soon. 

 

[00:24:28] Sabrina

So you guys can find out more in the link in the show notes below. And of course, if you’re interested, just register and you can have a quick chat with us to find out more about what we did in March and what we’re planning to do in May. 

 

[00:24:40] Yorlin

And where’s the good food?

 

[00:24:41] Jianggan

I think the food part was we had a couple of networking lunches and dinners there and people remember the most was the dim sum lunch on the first day, right? So, so again, I mean, even look at dim sum, I mean, you go to dim sum places in Southeast Asia, usually there’s a real traditional fair, right? But there, because, you know, there’s so many dim sum restaurants and people have to innovate.

So you have lots of dishes which look familiar, but are different, right? The glutinous rice chicken, you put cheese into it, and then you have 

 

[00:25:10] Sabrina

Yeah, goose, I think. 

 

[00:25:13] Jianggan

Yes. 

 

[00:25:14] Sabrina

I don’t remember what it is 

 

[00:25:15] Jianggan

We had a lot, 

 

[00:25:17] Sabrina

I just know we eat a lot.

 

[00:25:18] Jianggan

The good thing is that , people have extended amount of time to talk to each other. And

so, because quite often, I mean, you have, a partner that you visit, I mean, just over one hour, you can have a basic understanding, but, but it’s very hard to build trust.

So that’s why we created lots of sharing sessions, lots of networking dinners. 

 

[00:25:36] Yorlin

Lots of alcohol, 12 bottles of Baijiu. 

 

[00:25:39] Sabrina

That’s there facilitate networking. 

 

[00:25:42] Jianggan

Somebody was saying that we bought too much. 

 

[00:25:45] Sabrina

We finished it though. 

 

[00:25:45] Jianggan

Yeah, but we finished everything.

 

[00:25:46] Sabrina

I was like, if you finish it then it’s not too much.

 

[00:25:49] Jianggan

Yeah, then probably too little. So people had time to talk, people had time to figure out, I mean, build trust amongst each other, right? Because otherwise you look at these practitioner partners you might believe that they’re professional, but do you trust them?

So this is something that we try to actually facilitate. So I did three days of translation, which somebody was asking how it felt because it’s not only about, I mean, sort of someone says in Chinese, then you translate into English and vice versa. There’s also context, context, which is missing.

 And people who speak in Chinese naturally assume that you understand the context. So lots of context need to be added on. I was telling people that, I mean, after two or three days the thing you felt is actually a headache because you’re using lots of computer power to input and output information very quickly.

I think this felt a headache as well.

So I do think that there’s a lot of learnings. So actually after immersion, I have had catchups with more than half of the participants and with some of them actually quite extensively, and to figure out what they like the most, what they hope to see more in the next immersion in Hangzhou.

What I enjoy the most is that , people telling us then, oh, okay. I have been doing live commerce for two years, but this is my new detail that we saw in the studio. It’s something I never thought about, like how do you reflect the light? How do you adjust the, I mean, there’s lots of operational details, which are actually quite interesting for operators.

There’s also we had some sharing about strategy. I mean, how do you position yourself in the ecosystem? How do you compete against each other? Right. I think that’s also , many people find it a very interesting reflection because we know that the ecosystem e commerce in Southeast Asia is evolving fast.

But what exactly should you do? Which part should you position yourself in? Should you build MCN or should you work with MCNs? And with all the Chinese companies coming in, which are expecting a different kind of speed, a different kind of working culture. And how do you work with them efficiently?

And these are the things that we feel that, actually has a lot of value that we’re trying to bridge here.

Thank you for listening to episode 72 of the Impulso Podcast by Momentum Works. If you do like this, like our podcast. Follow And and we will see you next time.

[00:28:12] Sabrina

Okay, Bye bye. Bye. Bye.